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Entry tags:
- angry,
- anti-semitism,
- rl,
- sad
An all-time low for my sisters' boyfriends
Okay so I wrote an enormous version of this post, which was rambling and long because I was trying to process, and also to be fair and use quotes where I could remember them/had them via WhatsApp.
But here's the 1500-word version.
CN: anti-Semitism
So my middle sister is going out with a HOLOCAUST DENIER.
Yep.
He also believes some version of the reptilian thing.
Under the cut for more deets about how this has gone down.
1. Middle Sister was going out with a new guy she really liked; I met him once and thought he was a bit of a wanker and too old for her, but not disastrous. They broke up a little while later, because he'd been mean to her; it had also come out that he was a HOLOCAUST DENIER. And he believed the Reptilian thing. Certified anti-Semitic nutjob. She was very upset. Sad/shocking but that seemed to be the end of it.
2. Six weeks later, she turns out to be back with him. We're boggled, though parents are worried about him being mean; Youngest Sister and I are worried about that but also stunned and appalled that she's chosen to be with him now that she knows. I have a one-to-one with her where she's worryingly minimising of how fucked-up his views are, but clear-eyed about his failings as a boyfriend and definitely not planning on something long-term. I'm seeing orange flags for emotional abuse, so I'm worried, but I'm also expecting it to end before too long.
3. A month after that, she says she's bringing him to my mum's sixtieth. I'm shocked; she's very conflict-avoidant, and this would be a fairly-serious-boyfriend move even if we didn't all dislike-to-hate him. She does, and I'm surprised by how visceral my disgust and anger is when I see him; having him around from late afternoon spoils the nice day we were having getting ready for the party. I spend the party bringing out food and drinks while Middle Sister works inside. Gross boyfriend spends it talking to academics about politics, and not helping. Which I prefer because it minimises the time I have to spend with him, but still find striking.
My parents are strikingly, unpleasantly not that bothered by his views. Youngest Sister and I are very upset – she's much closer to Middle Sister than I am. We share info and shock over text. Youngest and Middle Sister argue by text before the party; I'm still trying to stay neutral to Middle Sister's face, because I'm worried about him isolating her/her feeling the need to defend him to us, even if he's cruel to her. I worry I'm failing a moral duty – I think social consequences for being/defending bigots is a good thing, and she probably wouldn't come to me anyway, but she's my little sister.
I sit through one blah conversation and mostly ignore him. This is made possible by P – she's my favourite cousin's girlfriend and a friend in her own right, and I've told her the truth, and she throws herself on the grenade of interacting with this person. The day after the party, I talk to the cousins who stayed over and avoid a hug from the holocaust denier not-very-subtly, because I'm trying to stay vaguely neutral but I can't have him touch me. On the drive back to London, I tell my cousins about how awful the BF is, and favourite cousin Terrible all the gory details. Couldn't tell them before/during the party, because they're all loud, opinionated people with little concern for social niceties, and it was my mum's sixtieth.
(I know. I just... please consider (a) the genuine concern about abuse, and (b) not wanting to let him 'win' by spoiling my mum's party, and (c) this isn't a defence exactly, but like, ultimately I'm a middle-class English woman and being loud about things means something different for me compared to most people on the planet. And I am, by our cultural standards, an extremely loud & opinionated person!)
Anyway.
4. I'm going to my parents' place for a weekend in August to look after my grandpa while they're away. Then it turns out Middle Sister's Saturday shoot got cancelled, so she's gonna come as well, and have BF stay over. (He lives in Cambridge, and my parents live just outside Cambridge. Middle Sister and I live in London.) I consider cancelling, because two nights and Time Spent Together is way more than I can or will handle, even as my mum tries reassuring me that they won't be there til late on the Friday and BF's working on Saturday. But I want to see my grandpa and I'm not willing to miss it cos of this guy.
So I call Middle Sister to explain that I'd like to see her, but I planned to go there first and I don't want him to be there.
5. We have a twenty-minute fight while I pace up and down in front of my house in the rain, because the signal inside is so bad. She says she's argued with him herself, and she does clearly disagree, but talks about how he's got Jewish friends (!). “He doesn't feel – it's not coming from – ” aka the classic 'he's not racist deep down'. She says if I just talked to him I'd see where he was coming from (how fucking dare you). It's “pretty fucked-up, but it's ignorance and naivete, not racism”.
I keep referring to him as a Holocaust denier and she asks if I can look past the label (!). She wants me to debate and discuss it with him, and get to know him. She thought we had a nice conversation at Mum's party, and is surprised and upset to hear that he makes my skin crawl. Apparently she and Mum thought I'd liked him until Youngest Sister turned me against him, which honestly bothers me – you think I need my sister's help to have moral standards just because you've apparently abandoned yours for a boyfriend? – but I don't say that. I'm still trying to keep things relatively calm, because Middle Sister utterly dismisses anger so easily.
She disagrees with him but talked to Youngest Sister about how people can disagree, and that's okay as long as you share core values. Which is true, but as Youngest Sister said, it's amazing that she considers this sharing core values.
She says he doesn't think it was Jewish people who were lying about the Holocaust, but Israel.
I say something about how that difference doesn't matter. (There are times when criticism of Israel isn't implicitly about Judaism but this REALLY isn't one of them.) And she says, “I don't agree with what Israel's doing and I'm not gonna pretend I do.”
I'm pretty sure I outright gasped when she said that; I don't even know what I said in response. That's outright anti-Semitism. I mean, obviously deciding anti-Semitism isn't a problem for you to the extent that you'll have a fairly serious relationship with a Holocaust denier is also anti-Semitism in itself, but thinking there's any kind of relevance/intellectual continuity between those things – that she thought that disagreement with modern Israel's human rights abuses was a remotely relevant response to me saying blaming Israel for exaggerating the Holocaust has no material difference from blaming Jewish people as a whole – was shocking to me. Like, that shows his influence, and I think is a different mindset from just not engaging at all with “offensive views”.
I say I'd be willing to be pleasant for the length of a family dinner or whatever but there's a limit.
She says, sounding properly upset then, “what if we get married? Are you just never gonna see your nieces and nephews?”
She also defends David Icke, inventor of the reptilian conspiracy theory. She knows nothing about him (I point about the basics of his background and she says she knew nothing about that; she's getting her info from when he was on Russell Brand, and said the anti-Semitic interpretation of his conspiracy theory was just one. This is the damage done, by the way, when people have famous bigots on their shows and don't challenge them – David Icke is Britain's most famous anti-Semite.
6. Honestly the next day is awful. I feel physically tired and have a pain in my chest all day; I've only felt that physical response to sadness before when someone had died. Because the twenty-minute conversation, and the WhatsApping a bit later that night, did do one helpful thing: I'm ninety-five percent sure that their relationship has got better, and she's genuinely happy. She assured me,“I'm not brainwashed or in an abusive relationship and manipulated, we're very happy together and we argue sometimes and I say what I think and sometimes I'm wrong and sometimes I'm right and he apologises.” And I'm not ready to stop keeping an eye on their relationship to the extent I can, but I do actually believe it.
And she didn't seem to realise that while that's obviously better than her being abused, it's still terrible. Because that means that while she disagrees with him, she's actively and happily choosing to continue a romantic relationship with a Holocaust denier.
She was “so unhappy before”. I hadn't realised, and I'm sorry. But while going out with someone isn't activism, normalising these ideas by accepting them – seeing them as a flaw, not a dealbreaker – is still a moral decision. Staying with him is abandoning, or maybe not having, moral standards I thought she held.
Please let it be over by Christmas. I think it will be, but I've been wrong before.
I've written about my sister and what she's doing for thousands of words and I still don't believe it.
But here's the 1500-word version.
CN: anti-Semitism
So my middle sister is going out with a HOLOCAUST DENIER.
Yep.
He also believes some version of the reptilian thing.
Under the cut for more deets about how this has gone down.
1. Middle Sister was going out with a new guy she really liked; I met him once and thought he was a bit of a wanker and too old for her, but not disastrous. They broke up a little while later, because he'd been mean to her; it had also come out that he was a HOLOCAUST DENIER. And he believed the Reptilian thing. Certified anti-Semitic nutjob. She was very upset. Sad/shocking but that seemed to be the end of it.
2. Six weeks later, she turns out to be back with him. We're boggled, though parents are worried about him being mean; Youngest Sister and I are worried about that but also stunned and appalled that she's chosen to be with him now that she knows. I have a one-to-one with her where she's worryingly minimising of how fucked-up his views are, but clear-eyed about his failings as a boyfriend and definitely not planning on something long-term. I'm seeing orange flags for emotional abuse, so I'm worried, but I'm also expecting it to end before too long.
3. A month after that, she says she's bringing him to my mum's sixtieth. I'm shocked; she's very conflict-avoidant, and this would be a fairly-serious-boyfriend move even if we didn't all dislike-to-hate him. She does, and I'm surprised by how visceral my disgust and anger is when I see him; having him around from late afternoon spoils the nice day we were having getting ready for the party. I spend the party bringing out food and drinks while Middle Sister works inside. Gross boyfriend spends it talking to academics about politics, and not helping. Which I prefer because it minimises the time I have to spend with him, but still find striking.
My parents are strikingly, unpleasantly not that bothered by his views. Youngest Sister and I are very upset – she's much closer to Middle Sister than I am. We share info and shock over text. Youngest and Middle Sister argue by text before the party; I'm still trying to stay neutral to Middle Sister's face, because I'm worried about him isolating her/her feeling the need to defend him to us, even if he's cruel to her. I worry I'm failing a moral duty – I think social consequences for being/defending bigots is a good thing, and she probably wouldn't come to me anyway, but she's my little sister.
I sit through one blah conversation and mostly ignore him. This is made possible by P – she's my favourite cousin's girlfriend and a friend in her own right, and I've told her the truth, and she throws herself on the grenade of interacting with this person. The day after the party, I talk to the cousins who stayed over and avoid a hug from the holocaust denier not-very-subtly, because I'm trying to stay vaguely neutral but I can't have him touch me. On the drive back to London, I tell my cousins about how awful the BF is, and favourite cousin Terrible all the gory details. Couldn't tell them before/during the party, because they're all loud, opinionated people with little concern for social niceties, and it was my mum's sixtieth.
(I know. I just... please consider (a) the genuine concern about abuse, and (b) not wanting to let him 'win' by spoiling my mum's party, and (c) this isn't a defence exactly, but like, ultimately I'm a middle-class English woman and being loud about things means something different for me compared to most people on the planet. And I am, by our cultural standards, an extremely loud & opinionated person!)
Anyway.
4. I'm going to my parents' place for a weekend in August to look after my grandpa while they're away. Then it turns out Middle Sister's Saturday shoot got cancelled, so she's gonna come as well, and have BF stay over. (He lives in Cambridge, and my parents live just outside Cambridge. Middle Sister and I live in London.) I consider cancelling, because two nights and Time Spent Together is way more than I can or will handle, even as my mum tries reassuring me that they won't be there til late on the Friday and BF's working on Saturday. But I want to see my grandpa and I'm not willing to miss it cos of this guy.
So I call Middle Sister to explain that I'd like to see her, but I planned to go there first and I don't want him to be there.
5. We have a twenty-minute fight while I pace up and down in front of my house in the rain, because the signal inside is so bad. She says she's argued with him herself, and she does clearly disagree, but talks about how he's got Jewish friends (!). “He doesn't feel – it's not coming from – ” aka the classic 'he's not racist deep down'. She says if I just talked to him I'd see where he was coming from (how fucking dare you). It's “pretty fucked-up, but it's ignorance and naivete, not racism”.
I keep referring to him as a Holocaust denier and she asks if I can look past the label (!). She wants me to debate and discuss it with him, and get to know him. She thought we had a nice conversation at Mum's party, and is surprised and upset to hear that he makes my skin crawl. Apparently she and Mum thought I'd liked him until Youngest Sister turned me against him, which honestly bothers me – you think I need my sister's help to have moral standards just because you've apparently abandoned yours for a boyfriend? – but I don't say that. I'm still trying to keep things relatively calm, because Middle Sister utterly dismisses anger so easily.
She disagrees with him but talked to Youngest Sister about how people can disagree, and that's okay as long as you share core values. Which is true, but as Youngest Sister said, it's amazing that she considers this sharing core values.
She says he doesn't think it was Jewish people who were lying about the Holocaust, but Israel.
I say something about how that difference doesn't matter. (There are times when criticism of Israel isn't implicitly about Judaism but this REALLY isn't one of them.) And she says, “I don't agree with what Israel's doing and I'm not gonna pretend I do.”
I'm pretty sure I outright gasped when she said that; I don't even know what I said in response. That's outright anti-Semitism. I mean, obviously deciding anti-Semitism isn't a problem for you to the extent that you'll have a fairly serious relationship with a Holocaust denier is also anti-Semitism in itself, but thinking there's any kind of relevance/intellectual continuity between those things – that she thought that disagreement with modern Israel's human rights abuses was a remotely relevant response to me saying blaming Israel for exaggerating the Holocaust has no material difference from blaming Jewish people as a whole – was shocking to me. Like, that shows his influence, and I think is a different mindset from just not engaging at all with “offensive views”.
I say I'd be willing to be pleasant for the length of a family dinner or whatever but there's a limit.
She says, sounding properly upset then, “what if we get married? Are you just never gonna see your nieces and nephews?”
She also defends David Icke, inventor of the reptilian conspiracy theory. She knows nothing about him (I point about the basics of his background and she says she knew nothing about that; she's getting her info from when he was on Russell Brand, and said the anti-Semitic interpretation of his conspiracy theory was just one. This is the damage done, by the way, when people have famous bigots on their shows and don't challenge them – David Icke is Britain's most famous anti-Semite.
6. Honestly the next day is awful. I feel physically tired and have a pain in my chest all day; I've only felt that physical response to sadness before when someone had died. Because the twenty-minute conversation, and the WhatsApping a bit later that night, did do one helpful thing: I'm ninety-five percent sure that their relationship has got better, and she's genuinely happy. She assured me,“I'm not brainwashed or in an abusive relationship and manipulated, we're very happy together and we argue sometimes and I say what I think and sometimes I'm wrong and sometimes I'm right and he apologises.” And I'm not ready to stop keeping an eye on their relationship to the extent I can, but I do actually believe it.
And she didn't seem to realise that while that's obviously better than her being abused, it's still terrible. Because that means that while she disagrees with him, she's actively and happily choosing to continue a romantic relationship with a Holocaust denier.
She was “so unhappy before”. I hadn't realised, and I'm sorry. But while going out with someone isn't activism, normalising these ideas by accepting them – seeing them as a flaw, not a dealbreaker – is still a moral decision. Staying with him is abandoning, or maybe not having, moral standards I thought she held.
Please let it be over by Christmas. I think it will be, but I've been wrong before.
I've written about my sister and what she's doing for thousands of words and I still don't believe it.
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I actually haven't seen that but I should! Kept meaning to, not least cos I love Rachel Weisz, but I'm terrible at seeing films.
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Somehow that evoked the memory of this Existential Comic, which I saw the other day.
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Though his version leans towards a combination of 'where does power really come from' that like... could be interesting, except it never is, and the type of lazy cynicism I associate with conspiracy theorists where everything's getting worse and will keep doing so, inevitably.
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I had a meltdown last week because I had to read the Hoefle telegram for work (read the wikipedia page with care, it records the deaths of 1.27million people in the Death Camps, and although it's the blandest of bureaucratic prose, it made me sob). I can't even imagine trying to have a civilised debate with someone who thinks that's an exaggeration. Let alone one confected by modern Israel.
I really do hope it's a temporary thing, the result of whatever was happening in your sister's life that made her so low, that she'll consider engaging with this disgusting ideology.
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Yeah, I mean... I hope it's temporary. I can't imagine him lasting. And she does disagree with his views, just - not enough. I just hope she's incredibly embarrassed this time next year.
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I would have done the same apropos my mum's birthday, so I completely get it. And no no no no no, his views are not okay or just 'a difference of opinion', they're actively dangerous :'(
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this, and you seem to be doing a fucking amazing job of it under the circumstances.
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Thanks! Idk, I never would've judged someone else for making that choice re: Mum's birthday (and not risking isolating her further, even if now I'm much less worried about possible abuse) but I also... well I'm glad I've made it clear where I stand, anyway. I do think there should be social consequences for this kind of thing. I mean there were grandchildren of survivors AT that fucking party.
his views are not okay or just 'a difference of opinion', they're actively dangerous :'(
100%. This is where describing them as "offensive views", as my sister did, is so milquetoast as to be an issue in itself.
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Yeah, I mean, it's not like famous here exactly - my mum had never heard of it - but as it was invented by a Brit who's our most famous anti-Semite (and famous for being very respectable and then suddenly going nuts) I imagine it's better-known here.
Yeah, I mean, I quite agree - and she did agree too, that I don't have to accept him. At least in the sense that she agreed that as it's my family home too, he shouldn't come if it meant I wouldn't. She decided to spend her weekend with him instead of coming to the parents' place without him, which was predictable but still feels like... did you choose him over me?
God I hope no wedding announcement. They've been together under a year, I'm still hoping they break up by Christmas.