High on Es
Mar. 15th, 2012 09:30 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lokifanI finally got round to this meme! And LOL you guys it is SO LONG. I AM SORRY.
1. Leave a comment to this post!
2. I will give you a letter.
3. Post the names of five fictional characters whose names begin with that letter, and your thoughts on each. The characters can be from books, movies, or TV shows. Or plays.
brinimc gave me an E.
Incidentally: I will be quite thrilled to hear dissenting views. If you share virulent hatred for one of these characters, I’ll be happy! The capslock is a sign of joy :)
El Burke from White Collar is marvellous. The actress is incredibly charismatic and gorgeous, and I always smile when I see her on screen. I love that she’s kind and supportive, but never the only one putting the work into her marriage. I love that she’s emotionally intelligent and kind to Neal, but counterbalanced by Diana - it’s not a Thing Women Do, it’s El’s own particular talent and a vital one. I like that she has her own job and that she’s so open to all the oddities Peter’s work brings home and that she has such a sense of humour about things. She’s clever and resourceful, and I just... she is one of the relatively few fictional characters who I not only like but would actually enjoy being friends with.
Elphaba from Wicked - oh Elphaba. So clever, so isolated, such a fun combination of dryly comical (“you really don’t have to do that”) and slapstick (“Boo!”) I love her for being so passionately loving of Galinda, and for putting freedom above love. I love that she dreamt for so long of working with the Wizard, and in those terms that I so completely empathise with, of being successful and admired and modest: “well of course that’s not important to me”. And I love how she throws them away without a glance back when she sees the truth. And I really like that she tries to persuade Galinda to come with her, but doesn’t hate Galinda for choosing to stay. And the turning away from Good Deeds, after so long looking after Nessa and trying to protect lion cubs, is my favourite thing.
Also, the mirroring with Galinda is just fascinating to me. Pink vs green, popularity vs splendid isolation, and the differing affectations: faintly sneering bookishness vs giggly, squeaky fluffiness. I like that their shared talent for magic and desire for approval leads them in such different directions: the passionate declaration that approval means nothing now, vs the acknowledgment that approval means everything now, because Elphaba is gone and Fiyero scorns her. I am endlessly pleased by their love song turned on its head, and their final duet. And I love that Galinda is the one left to sort of sing an epitaph for Elphaba, to pretend she didn’t know her but also pay tribute. AHHHH GIRLS WHY COULDN’T YOU HAVE ENDED UP RUNNING OZ AS AN AWESOME COUPLE. MAYBE WITH FIYERO RUNNING AROUND IN THE BACKGROUND HAVING OCCASIONAL THREESOMES ON DIPLOMATIC ~PRINCE VISITS.
I have a lot of love for book!Elphaba too, but I have more ~feels about musical!Elphaba.
Eric Chant from the Chrestomanci series by Diana Wynne Jones - Eric Chant, otherwise known as Cat, is brilliant. I sometimes feel I don’t understand him very well, but I like him a lot. His life is so defined, and in some ways circumscribed, by his big sister: it’s perfect that the first line of Charmed Life is “Cat Chant admired his older sister Gwendolen. He admired her and he clung to her.” That clinging is evident in so many ways through the novel. But even when Gwendolen abandons and betrays him, he manages. He survives. He’s quietly really very tough: witness his making the bad guys’ defeat happen, even while he’s on the ground and tied up and “rather wishes he were dead”.
And I love, love, love his petulant reaction to Tonino in Stealer of Souls - it’s what made me really appreciate him as a character, that he’s used to being the youngest and most to be pitied person, and when that position is usurped he is so resentful and annoyed. He is SO MUCH the baby sibling, it’s kind of no wonder he never recognises that his older sister’s enormous magical power is actually his by right.
Edgar Linton from Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte - I LOVE Edgar Linton. I once had this argument with a professor in a seminar, because he thought that if you liked Edgar Linton better than Heathcliff, you had kind of missed the point of the book on a fundamental level. And I DISAGREE. I know what Edgar stands for and what Heathcliff stands for, and God knows Cathy shouldn’t have married Edgar. But Edgar, for all that he’s spoilt and sometimes nasty as a child, is good, and decent, and he tries really hard. He’s a good father, even if he’s overprotective. He tries to be a good husband, even though it’s completely hopeless; all that fruitless effort to be what Cathy needs makes me love him.
His withdrawal to the library while Cathy is dying breaks my heart. I completely see why Cathy reacts the way she does, but it just speaks so strongly of an anguished man who could never express it in the torrents of emotion Cathy does, who needs to hide. *tear*
Also, I hate Heathcliff. And who we like as characters in a book often has no relation to who we like in RL, so I completely get why people love him. But Heathcliff’s treatment of his wife and son, and the implied abuse there, makes my blood run absolutely cold. And his contempt for those he considers weak just ENRAGES me. YOUR APPROACH MADE YOUR SON FALL DOWN, THEN HALF-FAINT. CONTEMPT FOR HIS WEAKNESS AT THAT JUNCTURE MAKES ME WANT TO PUNCH YOU IN THE FUCKING MOUTH.
Which is another reason I love Edgar. Because he’s the milquetoast blond who’s rich and spoilt, has no connection with nature untamed, who finds Cathy’s emotional tempests annoying and exhausting. He finds his wife and Heathcliff alone together when he’s tried throwing Heathcliff out. So he’s ineffectual, humiliated, even his wife won’t obey him and come away. And Heathcliff LOLs, and basically goes “come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough!” And Edgar defies all genre convention and KNOCKS HIM DOWN. WHAM.
EDGAR LINTON JUST PWNED YOU.
Edmund from King Lear by William Shakespeare - I actually don’t like King Lear much, it’s by far my least favourite of the tragedies. But I LOVE Edmund and he’s one of my absolute favourite Shakespeare characters. I love his nasty sense of humour and his scheming. Society won’t acknowledge his talents because he’s a bastard - even though his scheming, and Goneril and Reagan’s reactions to him, suggest he’s clever, handsome and politically gifted. So he turns to nature over the Church, to ruthless self-interest over filial duty, and generally runs around being brilliant. “Now gods, stand up for bastards!” is one of my favourite lines from the play. Particularly since Edmund doesn’t need the gods; he stands up for himself.
I mean, I fully acknowledge that since I hate Lear like poison and the Fool, Goneril and Reagan don’t really connect for me, I am left adrift with no character to emotionally connect to until Cordelia comes back. And thus I may have imprinted on Edmund like a morally inappropraite duckling as someone who at least amuses me and is distinct from the depressing morass around Lear and the way he fucks up his own life and everyone around him.
But then, oh, his death scene hits me in the heart: “some good I mean to do/ despite of mine own nature.” He’s dying, and he’s got no instinct for doing the right thing, but in his last moments he tries to help Cordelia and Lear. ♥
Also: bonus points for being the inspiration for another Edmund. I always liked Edmund Pevensie a lot. He’s easy to empathise with, I think, because he fucks up and then feels guilty about it but can’t make himself come clean. Also I am always amused by the Turkish Delight of Sexual Tension. I like to imagine that the White Witch, not realising the pure heroes would have to be unspoilt by puberty because it’s Lewis, arrived in this low-cut, high-slit white number and then was like OH CRAP. WHAT DO CHILDREN LIKE.
1. Leave a comment to this post!
2. I will give you a letter.
3. Post the names of five fictional characters whose names begin with that letter, and your thoughts on each. The characters can be from books, movies, or TV shows. Or plays.
brinimc gave me an E.Incidentally: I will be quite thrilled to hear dissenting views. If you share virulent hatred for one of these characters, I’ll be happy! The capslock is a sign of joy :)
El Burke from White Collar is marvellous. The actress is incredibly charismatic and gorgeous, and I always smile when I see her on screen. I love that she’s kind and supportive, but never the only one putting the work into her marriage. I love that she’s emotionally intelligent and kind to Neal, but counterbalanced by Diana - it’s not a Thing Women Do, it’s El’s own particular talent and a vital one. I like that she has her own job and that she’s so open to all the oddities Peter’s work brings home and that she has such a sense of humour about things. She’s clever and resourceful, and I just... she is one of the relatively few fictional characters who I not only like but would actually enjoy being friends with.
Elphaba from Wicked - oh Elphaba. So clever, so isolated, such a fun combination of dryly comical (“you really don’t have to do that”) and slapstick (“Boo!”) I love her for being so passionately loving of Galinda, and for putting freedom above love. I love that she dreamt for so long of working with the Wizard, and in those terms that I so completely empathise with, of being successful and admired and modest: “well of course that’s not important to me”. And I love how she throws them away without a glance back when she sees the truth. And I really like that she tries to persuade Galinda to come with her, but doesn’t hate Galinda for choosing to stay. And the turning away from Good Deeds, after so long looking after Nessa and trying to protect lion cubs, is my favourite thing.
Also, the mirroring with Galinda is just fascinating to me. Pink vs green, popularity vs splendid isolation, and the differing affectations: faintly sneering bookishness vs giggly, squeaky fluffiness. I like that their shared talent for magic and desire for approval leads them in such different directions: the passionate declaration that approval means nothing now, vs the acknowledgment that approval means everything now, because Elphaba is gone and Fiyero scorns her. I am endlessly pleased by their love song turned on its head, and their final duet. And I love that Galinda is the one left to sort of sing an epitaph for Elphaba, to pretend she didn’t know her but also pay tribute. AHHHH GIRLS WHY COULDN’T YOU HAVE ENDED UP RUNNING OZ AS AN AWESOME COUPLE. MAYBE WITH FIYERO RUNNING AROUND IN THE BACKGROUND HAVING OCCASIONAL THREESOMES ON DIPLOMATIC ~PRINCE VISITS.
I have a lot of love for book!Elphaba too, but I have more ~feels about musical!Elphaba.
Eric Chant from the Chrestomanci series by Diana Wynne Jones - Eric Chant, otherwise known as Cat, is brilliant. I sometimes feel I don’t understand him very well, but I like him a lot. His life is so defined, and in some ways circumscribed, by his big sister: it’s perfect that the first line of Charmed Life is “Cat Chant admired his older sister Gwendolen. He admired her and he clung to her.” That clinging is evident in so many ways through the novel. But even when Gwendolen abandons and betrays him, he manages. He survives. He’s quietly really very tough: witness his making the bad guys’ defeat happen, even while he’s on the ground and tied up and “rather wishes he were dead”.
And I love, love, love his petulant reaction to Tonino in Stealer of Souls - it’s what made me really appreciate him as a character, that he’s used to being the youngest and most to be pitied person, and when that position is usurped he is so resentful and annoyed. He is SO MUCH the baby sibling, it’s kind of no wonder he never recognises that his older sister’s enormous magical power is actually his by right.
Edgar Linton from Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte - I LOVE Edgar Linton. I once had this argument with a professor in a seminar, because he thought that if you liked Edgar Linton better than Heathcliff, you had kind of missed the point of the book on a fundamental level. And I DISAGREE. I know what Edgar stands for and what Heathcliff stands for, and God knows Cathy shouldn’t have married Edgar. But Edgar, for all that he’s spoilt and sometimes nasty as a child, is good, and decent, and he tries really hard. He’s a good father, even if he’s overprotective. He tries to be a good husband, even though it’s completely hopeless; all that fruitless effort to be what Cathy needs makes me love him.
His withdrawal to the library while Cathy is dying breaks my heart. I completely see why Cathy reacts the way she does, but it just speaks so strongly of an anguished man who could never express it in the torrents of emotion Cathy does, who needs to hide. *tear*
Also, I hate Heathcliff. And who we like as characters in a book often has no relation to who we like in RL, so I completely get why people love him. But Heathcliff’s treatment of his wife and son, and the implied abuse there, makes my blood run absolutely cold. And his contempt for those he considers weak just ENRAGES me. YOUR APPROACH MADE YOUR SON FALL DOWN, THEN HALF-FAINT. CONTEMPT FOR HIS WEAKNESS AT THAT JUNCTURE MAKES ME WANT TO PUNCH YOU IN THE FUCKING MOUTH.
Which is another reason I love Edgar. Because he’s the milquetoast blond who’s rich and spoilt, has no connection with nature untamed, who finds Cathy’s emotional tempests annoying and exhausting. He finds his wife and Heathcliff alone together when he’s tried throwing Heathcliff out. So he’s ineffectual, humiliated, even his wife won’t obey him and come away. And Heathcliff LOLs, and basically goes “come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough!” And Edgar defies all genre convention and KNOCKS HIM DOWN. WHAM.
EDGAR LINTON JUST PWNED YOU.
Edmund from King Lear by William Shakespeare - I actually don’t like King Lear much, it’s by far my least favourite of the tragedies. But I LOVE Edmund and he’s one of my absolute favourite Shakespeare characters. I love his nasty sense of humour and his scheming. Society won’t acknowledge his talents because he’s a bastard - even though his scheming, and Goneril and Reagan’s reactions to him, suggest he’s clever, handsome and politically gifted. So he turns to nature over the Church, to ruthless self-interest over filial duty, and generally runs around being brilliant. “Now gods, stand up for bastards!” is one of my favourite lines from the play. Particularly since Edmund doesn’t need the gods; he stands up for himself.
I mean, I fully acknowledge that since I hate Lear like poison and the Fool, Goneril and Reagan don’t really connect for me, I am left adrift with no character to emotionally connect to until Cordelia comes back. And thus I may have imprinted on Edmund like a morally inappropraite duckling as someone who at least amuses me and is distinct from the depressing morass around Lear and the way he fucks up his own life and everyone around him.
But then, oh, his death scene hits me in the heart: “some good I mean to do/ despite of mine own nature.” He’s dying, and he’s got no instinct for doing the right thing, but in his last moments he tries to help Cordelia and Lear. ♥
Also: bonus points for being the inspiration for another Edmund. I always liked Edmund Pevensie a lot. He’s easy to empathise with, I think, because he fucks up and then feels guilty about it but can’t make himself come clean. Also I am always amused by the Turkish Delight of Sexual Tension. I like to imagine that the White Witch, not realising the pure heroes would have to be unspoilt by puberty because it’s Lewis, arrived in this low-cut, high-slit white number and then was like OH CRAP. WHAT DO CHILDREN LIKE.
no subject
Date: 2012-03-15 11:29 am (UTC)Also, had to add that I really like Edmund too, but I kind of liked all the Pevensies at different times in my life. Good writing there, Lewis.
Also, the Turkish Delight was translated into filled chocolates because when I was a kid, Danes would have no effing clue what turkish delight was. I bet many still don't despite our rather notable Turkish minority. (I know because I've been to Turkey. I even know what it's called in Turkish, which is another story, because it's a Danish slang for loo. Basically they're called "bog" in Danish… Not so fortunate that *G*)
no subject
Date: 2012-03-15 11:50 am (UTC)Yeah, same. Peter's probably my least favourite but I like them all. Lucy is ♥
LOL! Oh dear.
Gimme a Letter, Please?
Date: 2012-03-15 01:38 pm (UTC)I love Elphaba from Wicked! (Honestly, I love all of Wicked the musical so...) I'd make a mess of heart thingies here if I knew how!
Eric Chant exists in the one DWJ series that I have yet to read. It's sadness because he sounds awesome.
I have to admit that I didn't make it through Wuthering Heights. I read the opening which is squalid and hopeless and has domestic abuse hanging in the air like a noxious cloud and I was all, "I'm done now. I don't need to read about how this guy abuses these people." I instantly disliked Heathcliff simply by looking at his effect on the people around him. I might have to give the book another go if someone awesome shows up later.
Feel my messy love of Edmunds! They are always awesome! (Although, I have to admit that I loved all of the Pevensie children as a kid. I still do but when I got older and my perspective changed a bit, Peter and Susan ended up making me sad. But my love of Edmund and Lucy is untainted! I still absolutely adore him for believing Lucy and volunteering to go with her even though he can't see the lion and everyone thinks she's nuts. And Lucy is just ^_^ even after she grows up, regardless of what C.S. Lewis says.)
have a letter G, and a rage-filled screed
Date: 2012-03-15 01:51 pm (UTC)ALL OF WICKED. I mean, I could have talked forever and ever and ever about how much I love Galinda, too. Btw, you make the hearts with & hearts ;, only without the spaces.
Yeah, I love all the Pevensies. Especially Lucy and Edmund - Voyage of the Dawn Treader FTW! I think it's my favourite, except for Magician's Newphew which I love the mostest forever.
That's completely far enough re: WH - the beginning is SO squalid and awful. And I love Wuthering Heights a LOT, but Heathcliff... well, he starts as a kid who's somewhat maltreated and there are moments of intense joy, but Heathcliff, I think, basically spends his life damaging and even destroying the people around him. And Edgar is clearly kinder and more decent, and has a better life, but his introduction shows his absolute worst side and all the way through it's very... Edgar is this awful representation of Society who cannot understand Cathy and Heathcliff and won't le them be Free. Which is sort of true, but Edgar tries hard and doesn't destroy. So it can occasionally be difficult to feel the authorial voice has disdain for him.
And even though it's not necessarily the first thing I think of with regards to the book, particularly since the second Cathy and Edgar are bright and brilliant and my favourites, there is a LOT of squalor and hopelessness, on all sides. And Heathcliff just... UGH UGH UGH. His true love, a hated adoptive brother, his son, his rival's son, his wife, his servant, his daughter-i-law who's the daughter of his true love - HE MAKES THEM ALL MISERABLE. FOR HUNDREDS OF PAGES. HE IS THE WORST, THE ABSOLUTE WORST.
Sorry, I have ALL THE FEELS about this. Particularly since people tend to talk about him in the same sentence as Darcy. Darcy is in many ways a dick, but HE changes and tries and DOESN'T NAIL ANY PUPPIES TO A DOOR. HE IS NOT LIKE HEATHCLIFF.
GUH! And MANY FEELINGS re: Heathcliff/Darcy parallels
Date: 2012-03-15 06:07 pm (UTC)I love Darcy! ♥FEROCIOUSLY!♥ And yeah, he's a jerk when he shows up but I have to smile because he's completely clueless as to the many ways he is a potential stalker/jerk. He's just so damn awkward in his affections and bumbling in his attempts to do better and even though he keeps falling down and getting cut off at the knees, he gets up and tries again. (Also, I didn't get the impression that he abused Georgiana. He liked her happiness... except if she thought it lay with Wickham.)
Honestly, I think JKR compared Snape to Heathcliff which just left me going "WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? Don't you see that he tries? He would never be romantic or remember anniversaries but he would try to do anything that he noticed made Lily happy!" And she compared James to Darcy. (Except I am absolutely positive that Darcy never secretly tormented people less wealthy/handsome/privileged than him. Yeah, Darcy could be a jerk but he wasn't anywhere near sociopath territory which is where I think James ended up after JKR "fixed" the MWPP timeline.) So, uh, that's a lengthy way of saying that JKR got her comparisons backwards and that I am vehemently certain, without reading more than 20-40 pages of WH, that Darcy and Heathcliff are not alike. At all.♥
(And yes, yes I am going to abuse my new tagging knowledge all over the place. Mhmmm.♥)
Re: GUH! And MANY FEELINGS re: Heathcliff/Darcy parallels
Date: 2012-03-16 07:11 pm (UTC)OMG NOOOOO. JKR makes a lot of weird comparisons re: her popular villains. But yeah. Like, calling Lily an awful slur is not actually on the same level as beating her when they were married - and the appeal of Snape isn't solely about him being a dramatic dick.
James-Darcy is another very weird comparison. Like, the woman says "I'd sooner go out with the Giant Squid"/"I had not known you a month before I felt that you were the last man on earth I would marry". But yeah, being awkward and snobby is different from being a bully.
And yeah - I mean, I don't think James is quite that far gone even with what we know now about the timeline, but I do think SWM coming post-Prank just says incredibly bad things about James.
Hahahaha. ♥ you!