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lokifanUgh, ugh, ugh.
My family comes out with all sorts of stupid stuff. Youngest Sister used to be the virtuoso – asking me to be quiet when I said how hot Freema Agyeman looked because it was “weird” comes to mind – but Middle Sister is – ARRRGH. She’d already said something about how George Michael had “pretty eyes”, so she couldn’t believe people didn’t know he was gay. I said something playful about how I didn’t think that was how you tell; from there we got into her views on homosexuality. Ie, men are gay because they don’t have enough testosterone.
I said this was far from accepted truth, and she shouldn’t be saying it like it was; and that it reminded me of evolutionary pyschology, ie science that isn’t that strong and gets imbued with authority it doesn’t have because it plays into stereotypes. In the case of evolutionary psychology, you have the added problem of no controls, which for my money makes it terrible science: how are you going to find a general sample of people with no social conditioning to compare? My example of this was gender: you can never know how much gendered behaviour is about biology and how much is the product of social conditioning.
Middle Sister said that it wasn’t, using her bemused but superior tone; this is a signal that you’re just wrong, and she can’t understand where you’re getting this from. After all, you’re born male or female.
SO. MUCH. RAGE.
She was saying this, loudly; Mum said “sex is what you’re born with, it’s not the same as gender,” or something along those lines. She was totally calm, and frankly this was not her supporting me – she never does, in these conversations. Still, it gave me a bit of hope: her tone told me clearly that she knew Lily was being transphobic and wanted her to stop saying it.
This was not a turn towards a new, enlightened family. Middle Sister managed to say – clearly with some difficulty in actually saying the words – that “to be honest, I think you only think that because you don’t want to think you’ve got too much testosterone.”
YA THINK?
But this – it isn’t, OH NOES I MIGHT HAVE TOO MUCH TESTOSTERONE, EWW. I said that did affect it, and of course my politics do, but it was still bad science. And this was as far as I got. Further than I’ve ever got before in actually challenging these things, but... I want to be brave enough to really call her out. She’s being prejudiced, and I never say it.
She gets to treat this as some vaguely interesting scientific inquiry. Youngest Sister said she wasn’t going to listen. Well that’s fucking great for them, but this is my actual life, not after-dinner conversation. And my bias does not necessarily make me wrong. Aside from anything else, I pay attention to these things. I have always been more interested in science than her – I got New Scientist through my teens, I considered becoming an astronomer or an anthropologist – and it makes me furious that she’s so condescending now. “You think there’s only one study?” she said with a snicker, when I questioned the science behind “gay men are gay because they have less testosterone”.
I am overreacting a little: there’s history here, and it’s invariably history of me walking away rather than getting in a fight. That history means this matters more than it would from a stranger - they're my family, after all - and that I can't decide it's probably just bad phrasing.
I don’t know why this is the first time I've come close to calling them out as is needed. I’ve never been non-confrontational, but the amount I challenge them is always highly limited – they definitely notice though. But you know what? I am fucking allowed to be sensitive about this. This is not her voting Conservative and me trying to persuade her to the Lib Dems. This is not winning an argument, despite what Mum said to me afterwards. This is about having to not feel strained when I go home, not pretending I didn’t meet my friends at Pride, not having to have my sister be prejudiced and get no support from the rest – in fact, they generally support her with small comments.
Also, my favourite cousin was a total twat about this on Facebook just now. I hate how craven I am with all this. I cannot wait to leave the house tomorrow and not have to talk to anyone I’m related to for four months.
My family comes out with all sorts of stupid stuff. Youngest Sister used to be the virtuoso – asking me to be quiet when I said how hot Freema Agyeman looked because it was “weird” comes to mind – but Middle Sister is – ARRRGH. She’d already said something about how George Michael had “pretty eyes”, so she couldn’t believe people didn’t know he was gay. I said something playful about how I didn’t think that was how you tell; from there we got into her views on homosexuality. Ie, men are gay because they don’t have enough testosterone.
I said this was far from accepted truth, and she shouldn’t be saying it like it was; and that it reminded me of evolutionary pyschology, ie science that isn’t that strong and gets imbued with authority it doesn’t have because it plays into stereotypes. In the case of evolutionary psychology, you have the added problem of no controls, which for my money makes it terrible science: how are you going to find a general sample of people with no social conditioning to compare? My example of this was gender: you can never know how much gendered behaviour is about biology and how much is the product of social conditioning.
Middle Sister said that it wasn’t, using her bemused but superior tone; this is a signal that you’re just wrong, and she can’t understand where you’re getting this from. After all, you’re born male or female.
SO. MUCH. RAGE.
She was saying this, loudly; Mum said “sex is what you’re born with, it’s not the same as gender,” or something along those lines. She was totally calm, and frankly this was not her supporting me – she never does, in these conversations. Still, it gave me a bit of hope: her tone told me clearly that she knew Lily was being transphobic and wanted her to stop saying it.
This was not a turn towards a new, enlightened family. Middle Sister managed to say – clearly with some difficulty in actually saying the words – that “to be honest, I think you only think that because you don’t want to think you’ve got too much testosterone.”
YA THINK?
But this – it isn’t, OH NOES I MIGHT HAVE TOO MUCH TESTOSTERONE, EWW. I said that did affect it, and of course my politics do, but it was still bad science. And this was as far as I got. Further than I’ve ever got before in actually challenging these things, but... I want to be brave enough to really call her out. She’s being prejudiced, and I never say it.
She gets to treat this as some vaguely interesting scientific inquiry. Youngest Sister said she wasn’t going to listen. Well that’s fucking great for them, but this is my actual life, not after-dinner conversation. And my bias does not necessarily make me wrong. Aside from anything else, I pay attention to these things. I have always been more interested in science than her – I got New Scientist through my teens, I considered becoming an astronomer or an anthropologist – and it makes me furious that she’s so condescending now. “You think there’s only one study?” she said with a snicker, when I questioned the science behind “gay men are gay because they have less testosterone”.
I am overreacting a little: there’s history here, and it’s invariably history of me walking away rather than getting in a fight. That history means this matters more than it would from a stranger - they're my family, after all - and that I can't decide it's probably just bad phrasing.
I don’t know why this is the first time I've come close to calling them out as is needed. I’ve never been non-confrontational, but the amount I challenge them is always highly limited – they definitely notice though. But you know what? I am fucking allowed to be sensitive about this. This is not her voting Conservative and me trying to persuade her to the Lib Dems. This is not winning an argument, despite what Mum said to me afterwards. This is about having to not feel strained when I go home, not pretending I didn’t meet my friends at Pride, not having to have my sister be prejudiced and get no support from the rest – in fact, they generally support her with small comments.
Also, my favourite cousin was a total twat about this on Facebook just now. I hate how craven I am with all this. I cannot wait to leave the house tomorrow and not have to talk to anyone I’m related to for four months.
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no subject
Date: 2009-09-02 01:05 am (UTC)My cousin pulled weirder shit though, she somehow kind of insults gay people but thinks that it was perfectly normal and insists she supports them. *headdesk*
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Date: 2009-09-02 09:19 am (UTC):( Your cousin fails. My sister's another irritating kind of I'm Not Prejudiced But - person: the kind who thinks she has Science (bad A Level psychology /= Science) on her side and you are being Terribly Irrational.
Which let's face it, judging by the rantiness and profanity of this post is not that far off.
no subject
Date: 2009-09-02 02:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-02 09:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-02 04:34 am (UTC)And I totally get being glad that you don't have to deal with family for months.
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Date: 2009-09-02 01:23 pm (UTC)Still! Soon I will only have fandom friends and uni friends and occasionally home friends to talk to. Which is all to the good.
no subject
Date: 2009-09-02 12:22 pm (UTC)They sound utterly clueless. I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. *hugs*
no subject
Date: 2009-09-02 01:26 pm (UTC)I'm embarrassed bout ranting now. *blushes* Never mind.
The problem is I'm spoilt, I think. I came out when I was sixteen, a couple of months after I realised; and I minded during sixth-form, but for sixth-form I went to a very posh Christian school in Harpenden. So I minded less, because they'd reacted very well compared to my classmates. Only now, I'm surrounded by lovely enlightened fandom people, and lovely enlightened RL friends, all the time. ;) It's a hard life.
no subject
Date: 2009-09-02 01:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-02 01:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-02 04:16 pm (UTC)*writes you a story to cheer you up*
Argh, people who DON'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND.
Look. I know family can be extremely stupid, but sometimes you have to accept that no matter what you do you can't convice everyone.
I have a friend who thinks being gay is a birth defect - an illness. When I told her she was wrong, she told me to look in nature. There's no such thing as gay animals, right? I corrected her.
I could go on and on (because it went on and on and on, but the point is that in the end I gave up. She wouldn't allow her mind to open that little bit to really listen to what I was saying.
When I told her I was bisexual she basically went, "Well, you're defected then." She wasn't trying to be mean, but the fact that she said it in such an offhand manner, as if it were ok to be ill but not queer - ARGH.
I felt like shaking her. Dan did, which was interesting.
I think she may be coming round slowly now, but it still makes me angry that she couldn't accept it as something I am, rather than something I lack.
But yes. NEXT ITEM - sibling and your sexuality.
I'm not quite sure how it happened, but I told my little brother I was bi the other day. We were travelling from Italy to Belgium and stayed the night in a hotel. One room for the parents, one for us. We always chat before falling asleep.
He asked me why I was, how I knew, and other such stuff to which I replied as best I could. He then asked me who I fancied, who I found attractive, why, and if I would marry DanRan if he asked. [Inside joke. If you don't know it, I'll explain when I get back. Which reminds me woot I'll be back from Sunday!]
After that, he stayed quiet for a bit, and looked like he was thinking hard.
About 10 minutes later, he said, "You know, I don't think I'm gay."
I laughed and told him he didn't have to be. Besides, he has years ahead of him. I wouldn't care if he was or wasn't.
He tilted his head at me, smiled and said, "Ok."
It's at times like these that I love my brother. He's got the type of mind that considers before he makes judgements. He's met my gay/bi friends knowing that they are and has never been anything but friendly - genuinely so. It doesn't matter to him at all and I am SO PROUD of him for that.
And the being away from family for months. I felt like that about halfway through August. I'd been with them 24hoursaday/7daysaweek since June and I had. Had. Enough. I couldn't wait to get back "home" to Norwich to just be AWAY from irritating brothers who didn't understand the concept of privacy or silence, or mothers who KNEW you'd lived alone for a year and still succeeded and are trying to pressure you into something you DON'T WANT and both your parents are just suffocating you, telling you to be something you can't be and study more and get out and you don't want to be near them for the next 6 months, or at least as long as possible.
I understand, lovely. Cheer up. I have a Draco story I think you might like.
no subject
Date: 2009-09-26 01:19 am (UTC)I do realise you can't convince everyone - it's just, you know, most of the everyone won't be with me for Christmas in fifty years, unlike my sisters. (I hope, anyway.)
Your brother sounds both awesome, ntelligent, and ADORABLE. "You know, I don't think I'm gay"? AWWWWW.
*hugs you back* Ohhh, family. So damn claustrophobic. BUT WE ARE BACK IN THE LAND OF FUN. How was Frankie and Benny's?
no subject
Date: 2009-09-26 01:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-02 08:25 pm (UTC)My family is just so stunted on this kind of stuff. My sister has just moved into a shared flat and is oh so excited about her gay flatmate. "Oh he's very gay" and "Well, of course he has *insert film/music/anything here*"
He's not a novelty, he's a person. GTFO.
They know pretty much nothing about any of my interests in LGBT just because there's no getting through to them.
Families suck. Hopefully Norwich will be better soon *hugs*
no subject
Date: 2009-09-25 02:00 am (UTC)"Yes."
"He's not allowed to watch Top Gear!" Etc. Particularly aggravating since one of Ash's pet peeves is this whole gay = camp idea - he's a man's man, and also an unrepentant, sitting-in-his-boyfriend's-lap bottom.
And of course, they all talk about Harry my 'gay best friend' - the kind every girl should have, like a handbag. >:(
But Norwich is sooo much better. I'm loving it now I'm back. COME SEE US, OUR HOUSE IS AMAZING.
no subject
Date: 2009-09-25 02:09 pm (UTC)But ugh I know what you mean. I don't want to tell my family, especially as I'm going to be living here for the next year. My dad once said(while drunk but still) we should lock up all the gays. Or shoot them. Most of my friends know I'm pretty much middle of the road, I like guys/girls/undecided but I just can't tell my parents. If I ever ended up with a girl i would tell them, but not till then I think. I feel bad for not being 'out and proud' or whatever because I see nothing wrong with it, and I'm happy when people are comfortable with themselves.
I miss Norwich sometimes. I miss you guys and the fun times. Not the uni lol. I've just sent off my application to ucas again, but not to UEA again-they don't do the course I want to do. I kind of want to come see you guys, but I'm worried it would be weird. I've hardly kept in touch. ahjkcdhfe I'm being all weird now BAI.
no subject
Date: 2009-09-26 01:13 am (UTC):( That sucks. But I don't think you need to feel bad about not being out and proud - if I'd thought I'd lose my sisters over it, I wouldn't have told them (unless, likely, I was in a relationship with a girl). Hell, I almost never discussed a crush on a girl until I went to uni.
I guess it makes sense not to apply to UEA again! It might be a little weird, but I don't think it'd be too bad - after all, I got no awkward at all from that time in Camden. And our house is a place where awkwardness is crushed by the niceness of Miss Godfrey and Violet and the non-stop chatter of me.
:) And you're not being weird, you're being vaguely socially paranoid. Much like EVERYONE EVER.
no subject
Date: 2009-09-26 02:20 pm (UTC)You're the nicest person ever. I SQUEEEEESH YOU NAO.
I'm always socially paranoid lawlz but it would be nice to see you guys again. I'll see how the latest job prospect turns out and if I can come up to see you guys.