Con drop and porn

[lokifan]

You might be getting comments from me on old entries for a bit; I’m trying to catch up. On the other hand, maybe not; I need to have finished my Hamlet notes by this weekend.

Con drop, I has it. I was meant to be doing training – it got cancelled randomly; apparently the hotel took a different booking while the union was faffing about. I’m now revising instead. Only the others aren’t here and CON-DROPPING LIKE IT’S HOT. Argh.

Inspired by a conversation with son_of_darkness:

Do you identify with characters you read, particularly in porn? Kye says he does, which is why femmeslash doesn’t work for him even though he likes the ladies – there’s no place for him when it’s all girlsex. By contrast, I very rarely identify with characters – when I read femmeslash, it’s the exact same relationship I have with slash. I suppose I sometimes identify with subs if there’s something specific there that echoes my own feelings rather precisely, but that’s not bound by gender and rarely happens anyway.

What about you? I’d be especially interested to hear from those of you who read both slash and femmeslash or het (or vice versa) – if there’s someone of your gender there, do you identify with them? In kinkfic, do you identify with the dom(me) or sub according to your preferences? *nosy face*

Comments

[klashfor.livejournal.com]

Hmmm....*thinky face*

I read slash, femmeslash (when I can find it-Trek has little femmeslash in it-aren't enough female characters without genderswitch which I do love but I digress) and het. I enjoy reading relationship and usually the sex just feels like a progression or it can be that you can see their dynamic in that situation. That's not to say I don't read a PWP now again.

As a sweeping generalisation I generally don't relate to the people in sex scenes. With slash I just enjoy it, with femmeslash I occasionally think about what it would be like to be in a similar situation. I never relate to het though. I always feel like you can't measure up to the girl. It's always described like it's so easy.

With kink I can relate to either party. I'm a bit of a switch like that :P Although I do like hurt/comfort and relate to the one being comforted. I like being taken care of.

[lokifan]

Trek has little femmeslash in it-aren't enough female characters

*hugs you* It's so sad when that happens.

Heh, I don't really read het sex - the few het fics I've ever read have tended to be Lucius/Narcissa vignettes, James/Lily rom-com, that sort of stuff. But I can totally see not measuring up to the girl!

D'awww. *hugs you and feeds you soup*

[chairman-wow.livejournal.com]

Hmm, what an interesting question. Let me go survey a selection porn so I can give you a properly scientific answer. >_> <_<

Obviously it depends on how well it's written, and for what purpose (as part of a plot-heavy fic, just a bit of PWP, &c), but I'd say I do identify with characters in porn, at least some of the time. Some of it probably lends more to watching from the outside than seeing things from one character's point of view... I guess it's also influenced by how much I relate to the particular character in general. In any case pretty much identify with all genders equally (though maybe if I found some porn with genderqueer characters I would relate extra-hard, but I can only remember one or two actually good fics in that vein atm).

Amusing anecdote: Up until a few years ago, before I figured some stuff out, kinkfic (especially het) used to squick me a lot of the time because I thought I had to identify with the girl, who seemed to always be the submissive one and/or had to identify with the sub 'cause I was female. It sort of took a criminally long time for that penny to drop. ._.

[lokifan]

Let me go survey a selection porn so I can give you a properly scientific answer.

*nods seriously* Orgasms in the name of SCIENCE.

Yeah, whether people identify probably is influenced by the style. My smut is always HEAVILY into the chosen POV, but it's also probably influenced by my own slightly voyeuristic approach to smut-reading... there's always lots of stuff about how hot and controlling my top is, please do it harder/how pretty my bottom is crying and struggling like that, depending on POV.

LMAO. Well, considering the many and varying ways I should have caught on to being bi/subby and didn't, I shall not judge.

[chairman-wow.livejournal.com]

The things I do for science, I tell you. I think I deserve some sort of medal.

Hmm, thinking about POVs... I usually like it when a story has shifts in POV, because it's quite interesting to see different interpretations of the same situation, but I wonder if that would work for porn without breaking the flow. It'd definitely have to be a very interesting and emotionally involved/character developing sex scene to make reading it twice worthwhile. Or a really really hot one.

Anyways, I'm not too picky: I get off just as well on porn that lends itself to voyeurism as the identifying with/relating to one character kind.

XD I appreciate the non-judging, though I've basically been laughing at myself about it ever since. The bisexuality and the whole genderqueer thing where practically non-discoveries, whereas kink has been some sort of revelation. "OH! Oh wait, I could think about it the other way round... HOW WAS I NOT AWARE OF THIS? Ok, now this I think I will have to investigate further."

Haha, this is the most I have talked about sex on the interwebs since my dad got tech-savvy enough to stalk my LJ. It's sort of refreshing. Hope I'm not rambling on, though. >_>

[lokifan]

Hmm. I'd be curious to hear what you make of my fic Patience. It's porn with shifting POVs, although because it was done for a drabble comm's prompt, it's written as a series of drabbles so the breaking up is there automatically.

Okay, but see, I was all about gay rights but I never knew about bisexuality's EXISTENCE until I was sixteen. I'd had all these crushes on girls, but I'd had feelings for boys too, and there are all those well-meaning teen magazines that say it's sometimes just a phase. And then I heard about bisexuality. 'I can't be a lesbian, so it's just a phase, it's because I think Willow off Buffy is cool... Oh. OH. Well. That explains a lot.'

[chairman-wow.livejournal.com]

XD Hello! Man, I was computer-less for a few days and then I sort of forgot I hadn't replied to this yet. Sorry. >_>

That fic of yours is pretty good! The shifting POVs work really well, especially since there's such a discrepancy between the two views of the situation. It does flow differently than something from on POV, obviously, but it works.


Heh, I can't remember when I found out bisexuality existed... it was probably in one of the many About Your Body/Puberty/Relationships books my mum bought me between the ages of 10 and 16. I do remember, though, that I was reading a book when I was about... 13 or 14 probably, in which two men "made love" (that were the exact words), and I just sort of stopped reading mid-sentence and went "Huh. How does that work?" I couldn't imagine the mechanics. XD

[lokifan]

:D Thank you!

LMAO. Oh, so cute. I have friends who got their sex ed from slash.

[girlofavalon.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, I tend to identify with characters even in PWP. As strange as it may sound, that's why I prefer slash over femmeslash. I simply don't identify with the female characters as much as with the male characters, maybe with a couple of exceptions. As for kinky porn, I identify with the Dom, but there's a partof me that identifies with the sub as well, and I do tend to write from the sub's POV more often than from the Dom's. I deeply cherish the sub too :)

Guess I wasn't of much help :P

[lokifan]

I simply don't identify with the female characters as much as with the male characters

Huh. I suppose I should've seen that coming since you've said you always like male characters better, but I'm a little surprised.

I do tend to write from the sub's POV more often than from the Dom's.

I write from the dom(me)'s POV slightly more often than the sub's. :) Maybe we just want to write about characters going on and on about how wonderful people who share our preferences are - I mean, in my preferred porn-writing style, my tops go on for bloody ever about how pretty and lovely and brave their subs are. Which is probably at least partly me having a little ego-stroke in the back. :)

That was totally helpful! I'm a bit brain-dead just now, but it's v interesting reading everyone's POVs.

[girlofavalon.livejournal.com]

I suppose I should've seen that coming since you've said you always like male characters better, but I'm a little surprised.

Mmmm, then why are you surprised? I am curious ^_^


Maybe we just want to write about characters going on and on about how wonderful people who share our preferences are

Haha, makes sense. I like to have the sub's experience with the Dom(me), how good submission to that person is or how bad being under that person's authority is, and the path for it to become good :)

[lokifan]

Mmmm, then why are you surprised? I am curious ^_^

I suppose it's because you seem pretty comfortable identifying as a woman. Which is just me being short-sighted, really. Also, as I said, I don't identify with characters, so that being a reason to prefer slash over femmeslash or vice versa still surprises me.

I like to have the sub's experience with the Dom(me), how good submission to that person is or how bad being under that person's authority is, and the path for it to become good :)

Agreed. :)

[girlofavalon.livejournal.com]

you seem pretty comfortable identifying as a woman

I must agree that it's short-sighted. Where did you get this idea from?

I don't identify with all characters I read, but I identify with some, and not only in porn. And most of the times I identify better with a male character.

[lokifan]

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure. I guess because your default icon is a woman, you mention lots of personal stuff but not gender stuff that I've seen, etc - nothing big, but lots of little stuff, if that makes sense? Do feel free to correct me! I mean, I did actually want to ask about your gender identity at the start of this post, but I thought that was rather cheeky!

Gotcha. :)

[girlofavalon.livejournal.com]

My journal started first to follow fandom, than became kind of my self-therapy, hence I post lots of personal stuff, and yes my default icon is my favourite female celebrity. I am a major fan of Keira Knightley because she's amazing IMO.

In truth, I hate being a woman, but what else can I do.

Not sure what you mean by gender issues, you mean like you post sometimes, like some of my friends post. Well, you all are rather better informed than I am, partially because I have severe OCD and I am very anxious, and it eats all my brains to be as well informed as I used to be before my OCD was flared out.

Besides, I've had a complicated background, and just now I have really started to know myself, something I should've done ages before.

Back to my indentity, I've been questioning it a lot, and I seriously get pissed off when I complain that I don't like being a woman and someone comes with thse argument that I like to dress up. Yes, I like to dress up and I like make-up. I adore it. So what? Seriously, this is how people are trying to convince me that I am a perfect woman? Way to go...

It wouldn't be cheeky, and I've been reading and researching a lot. I am a genderqueer, though I do prefer men over women as partners.

I'm not bothered by gender pronouns, though. They're the least I. personally, should worry about. And I don't want to have a gender reassignment surgery either, it wouldn't help much.

[lokifan]

Okay, gotcha. I didn't say 'gender issues' so I'm not sure you mean specifically. :S

Oh dear, that sounds lame. Dressing up /= being a woman. Thanks for giving me such a detailed reply. And I'm sure it'll get easier as time goes on - working stuff out about ourselves is always hard, but you're being totes pro-active about it. :)

[girlofavalon.livejournal.com]

Haha... Don't worry. I thought you had, but what you said was gender stuff. I actually meant issues = stuff *headdesk*

And I just noticed that my previous comment went with some major typos :( I meant it eats my brains not to be as well informed as I used to be before my OCD was flared out.

I used to be super savvy, I used to discover brilliant sites, one day I would probably have been able to reach what I now only reach thank to other people. Nowadays, I am nearly incapable of googling something because I'll just stare at the results on the screen, too afraid to click anything because I don't want to get my desktop infected :( Basically, if there isn't a Wikipedia article in the results, it takes me a lot of effor to click anything else.

Yeah, and this misconception is really sad =/ He he :) I am being totes pro-active. Unfortunatelly, my country doesn't seem to recognize queers as a whole. You're either gay, lesbian, bissexual, trangender or something that is not quite an Ally, but find gays super cool =/

So, it's even harder, since classifications like genderqueer etc. only seem to exist in English. Bta, would you have any reading to reccomend me on Queer Theory? ;)

[lokifan]

:) No worries - there's just such a wide breadth of stuff me/the flist post about that could go under the heading 'gender issues' - feminism, binary, sexuality, etc - that I thought I should check!

:( Very difficult.

*sighs* The whole category and concept of queerness is a difficult one; going to the National Union of Students' LGBT conference really brought this home to me.

Not just now - am far from the university library. ;) I might be able to check my favourites again once I'm back, though!

[girlofavalon.livejournal.com]

Now I realised my comment must've sounded harsh, it was not my intention. I think I just vented a lot on you.

[lokifan]

Nah, it didn't. It sounded like a queer person getting frustrated, which I'm used to and do myself ALL THE TIME. *hugs you*

[girlofavalon.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you understood, not that I was expecting any different *hugs back*

[woldy]

I've never really understood what people mean by 'identify with' in this sense. I don't imagine myself as one of the characters, or doing the things they're doing in porn scenes, but I do emotionally relate to what's going on with the characters - if I'm not emotionally relating to them, I tend to get bored and backclick. It definitely depends on the dynamic of the scene, though, because emotion-laden scenes make me think about the characters, whereas anonymous sex scenes (which are generally much less character driven) make me think more about bodies fucking & less about what's going on in their heads.

When I read other people's comments about how they do identify with the characters in porn, I always like though maybe I'm missing the point :-/

[lokifan]

Yay, you relate to characters the same way I do! We're not alone in missing the point, if we are.

It definitely depends on the dynamic of the scene, though

Very true - although personally I've not read too much anonymous sex scenes in recent months. It all seems v character-driven just now, which pleases me. :)

[woldy]

Glad it's not just me! I definitely like the character-driven stuff, but I have a total anonymity kink too. I've read some very hot fics where two characters have sex with each other without knowing the other person's identity :-)

Did you get my femmefest fic, BTW?

[lokifan]

:D Anonymity kink can be fun - but I just don't have the stomach for it all the way. I always want the OH SHIT IT'S YOU WHERE DID I JUST PUT MY PENIS OH GOD moment. :)

I did! I won't be able to get to it til Sunday, cos I'm just about to head out the door for the weekend. *fails*

[magic-at-mungos.livejournal.com]

It depends on how well written it is and whether it hits my buttons. If it's technically good but doesn't push my buttons, then it just leaves my buttons.

It also depends on the character. I can't identify with Hermione at all, so it could be the best fic in the world and I still won't identify with her. Does that make sense?

[lokifan]

Gotcha.

I can't identify with Hermione at all, so it could be the best fic in the world and I still won't identify with her. Does that make sense?

Definitely. Although I suspect I'd identify with her if I was an identifying-type - her self-righteous self is something of a cautionary tale for me!

[magic-at-mungos.livejournal.com]

Mainly because me and Hermiones never really got on. I find myself turning into a snotty cow :D.

[kabal42.livejournal.com]

Hm. That's a good one...

It varies a lot for me, tbh. It depends on the kind of fic. But yes, with some characters (and especially these characters in specific scenarios) then I do identify. I think this is why I read less than earlier. When I started reading fic I didn't feel that way.

I think this is also why I write more femmeslash than I read ;-)

[lokifan]

Hmm, interesting. You read less now that you identify more, is that right?

LOL. I read waaaay more femmeslash than I write, but I seek to change this!

[kabal42.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. I'm emotionally invested, so it gets to me if something feels "wrong" (in my limited world-view *S*) - and the emotions of the character I identify with bleeds stronger into my own. So I don't have the energy to cope with it.

Heeh! Good! There must be more femmeslash!

[kuri-taichou.livejournal.com]

I can relate to characters if they're experiencing something I've experienced (I guess that's kind of obvious). In kinkfic I guess I do identify with subs a lot because, having experienced similar feelings myself, it gives me a new appreciation for the smut.

[lokifan]

I can relate to characters if they're experiencing something I've experienced

*nodnod* Me too, which is part of why I tend to judge femmeslash harder than slash. With boysex it's fine, I can suspend disbelief with a lot of stuff, porn isn't meant for realism etc... With girls I get all WHAT THE SHIT IS THIS, I'VE DONE THAT AND THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS!

[kuri-taichou.livejournal.com]

LOL I KNOW RIGHT